Book #3?

Let's get some comments going with books you're wanting to read. We already have a few listed on the side, too. 

What do you think should be our voting options for book #3? 

There are a few books I think would be amazing to read back to back: 

• Cry, The Beloved Country by Alan Paton
• Remembering Babylon by David Malouf 
• The Road by Cormac McCarthy

and

• Animal, Vegetable, Miracle by Barbara Kingsolver
• A Movable Feast by Ernest Hemingway

I REALLY want to throw in Walking on Water: Reflections on Art and Faith, because so many cool folks I know have said it's their favorite book.

Any thoughts on this about order? Want to suggest different books? Am I the only one that hasn't read The Road?

Start some chatter up here if you have any thoughts.

the day is real

Sweet Sassy Molassey, I hope we're still reading buddies after all the ruckus. Seems like it's over now. Is it? Are you ready to forever hold your peace on The Shack?

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Guys, I know Fall schedules are getting all scribbly and filled. This is such a fussy time of year, but keep clicking here and get ready to vote on the side for the book to follow Holy the Firm? Do you have Holy the Firm? My copy is only 76 pages long.

Listen to this. Read it aloud. "The day is real; the sky clicks securely in place over the mountains, locks round the islands, snaps slap on the bay. Air fits flush on farm roofs; it rises inside the doors of barns and rubs at yellow barn windows. Air clicks up my hand cloven into fingers and wells in my ears' holes, whole and entire. I call it simplicity, the way matter is smooth and alone" (pp. 12-13).

Poetry! I can't wait to read Dillard with you. What do you say we read it by September 8th and just write as we want? I'm sure we'll breeze through it like chocolate, wishing it wasn't over when it was.

so what did you think??

i have found myself pausing several times before answering this question. everyone seems to be talking about The Shack. do i mention all the good things i appreciated about it?? or do i focus on the things that bugged me? the good: portraying God as someone who cares. He sees our pain, wants to enter into it with us, wants to personally heal us. Bottom line: He loves us.
the bad: don't build your whole view of God based on The Shack. some quotes from the book are inconsistent with scripture (i'm not going to list them here--i think everyone else has done a good job dissecting it). i paused after hearing Macks view of seminary as part of the religious system. i've had the privilege of taking a few seminary classes and it's only increased my love for God, His word and others.
sorry to only post once...i read the book several weeks ago and planned to read along again but couldn't bring myself to reread the first few chapters. i have two little girls--after reading Missy abduction i cried my eyes out.
obviously i am not a writer--i have enjoyed reading all of your posts. there are obviously some gifted literary peoples in the group. i haven't ventured beyond parenting and Piper books the past few years so i'm excited to stretch my brain in a new way.

Tin Roof ---- Rusted!

I was starting to feel like my little baby blog had fallen into a mud bath, but low and behold, the "good stuff" entries came and washed all the yuck out. Keep your good stuff coming, peoples.

Because most of us seem to have finished The Shack already, let's go ahead and start dishing our final reviews of the book - spoilers and all. We can give ourselves a couple of weeks to do that and order Annie Dillard's Holy the Firm. And also in that time, Nicole suggests that we each post a self-introduction. I'll keep a link to each intro on the side so newcomers can be acquainted with whomever they're reading. 

Also, let's make a decision right now to hush up about feeling inadequate in comparison to other bloggers here. You do not have to be an English major to understand English. Write what gets you about the book. If you mispell (sp?) a word, you're normal. We like regular peoples just as much as irregular peoples. You also do not have to believe in Jesus to be here. I'm just saying. We like peoples here, especially plain ole peoples who mess up in the way peoples do. 

My "Good Stuff Entry"

why The Shack is cheese to a good wine.
(by which I am a hypocrite because I like a $3 bottle of champagne and cheddar cheese so this analogy doesn't apply to me, but in the worldly sense of people who have good taste I plunge forward with my now awkward analogy.)

Good wine is something to relish, to enjoy and savor. The Shack isn't that. It's the complementary cheese to the wine. You pop it in your mouth, then chew and swallow, then back to savoring the good stuff. Now, I love cheese. Not the moldy expensive stuff, but good old Wisconsin cheddar. The wine would be fine without the cheese, but oh, isn't comfort food grand?

There are plenty of good books out there, great stuff, the classics. What would my world be today without Tom Sawyer? (Perhaps slightly less racist...) Jane Austin, Charlotte Bronte, and Ernest Hemingway, are all wonderful authors whose classic works stand out and feel like honey tea to a raspy throat to our respective creative souls. Those books are fine wine. Heck, to make this analogy more spiritual, I'll throw the bible in the mix. The bible is something to pour over multiple times to see what gem you suddenly find entwined with the stuff you know. I'm re-reading Songs of Solomon and I'm falling in love with God all over.

Now, as you people have (no doubt) read in several of my comments, I love the Shack. I will border on boring repetition here, but I want this blog to be the whole version, and not just bit and pieces based on the assumption that you remember all my comments thus far. Someone gave me the book before all the hype so I had an insurmountable advantage over you because I wasn't trying to make it live up to something it's NOT. AND I read it all in a day so I wasn't reading it with a critical eye. Now that I am going back through, I will say that I hold it with a little less esteem, but nonetheless love it. The Shack is just a simply written book of someone attempting to do the impossible and I applaud his effort and putting his soul out there for the buzzards to pick clean. I barely want to publish here, let alone try to compile my heart's thoughts to be read by all!! I think he overreached some and tried to hard to explain stuff that really he could have left alone but on the whole he got a point across that is sending his book to #1 and getting movie deal out of it.

He attempts to bridge the gap of an all-loving God and the sickness of this fallen world and the sins that "shouldn't" happen. Does anyone one of you NOT have family members or dear friends who use this as an excuse for the non-existence of God? The hurt, the suffering we all have experienced in combination with an all-powerful, all-loving God is hard to equate. It's hard to understand. It's plain hard to believe. As my own testimony that I have shared on here, I would say the churched answer of "Well, of course I believe in an all-powerful God" while, deep, deep in the depths of my heart a voice cried out "NO! I don't!" and I would ignore it because it was wrong. Pesky ole Satan trying to make me doubt or something, but what I didn't realize was that was not just Satan, it was what I truly believed. I just denied it like a crime done against someone who won't admit it happened to her because then the ugliness would pour out and everyone would see how dirty that she was. My life wasn't full of anger or bitterness, but perhaps if I hadn't read The Shack and had to deal with my personal demons, my own Great Sadness (sappy reference, I know!) would have developed into that.

I don't want to go into too much personal detail being that I don't know everyone on here and this is again, repetitive, but when the doctors told me that my child had a syndrome that needs to be diagnosed, when they said he'd probably have to have heart surgery and that he was severely developmentally behind, and when they told me that an operation is the only way for my child to not loose his vision in one eye, my deep rooted feelings came up like like a raging volcano and my trust in God was shattered. How could an all-loving God allow this? I could go into the rest of the world but you already know the filth that is there, all around, wanting to devour all that is holy and innocent. I'm not going to go over all that happened within my life that made me finally realize and work through my issues because that is my personal story and it is ongoing.

The Shack was like a salve on my soul, quieting me and making me deal with the hypocrisy within my life. It wasn't the slap in the face books that I quite literally throw across the room in a fit of rebellion, it was the whisper of God within the pages telling me that he IS Love. I'm not going to pour over it and delight in reading it again and again, but it was a tasty morsel that complemented my own search for who He is.

THE HAMSTER'S SHACK ATTACK

no spoilers here. just wanted to drop some personal notes on this phenomenom that has brought us all here together. this blurring wonder we have come to know as: THE SHACK.

here's what i liked about william p. young's first opus:

- THE SHACK was short. once i finally got to reading it, i cranked through it in, like, two days. this makes me happy. the more books i crank through in two days the more books i get to boast for reading in a month's time, which makes me sound wicked smart at a dinner party.

- THE SHACK was encouraging. many of you may know (most of you may not), that i am a fan of violence in media. i like seeing people die on the television set - particularly in bizarre, creative ways (ie. christian bale dropping the chainsaw on the prostitute in the stairwell - baker's got my back on this). with that in mind, i found the story of THE SHACK encouraging. it made me feel good and calm and rested. reading THE SHACK tasted like sipping chamomile tea with my eyeballs.

- in THE SHACK, i liked how the trinity laughed so much. and i liked that their joy kinda peeved mack. i think the religious world went and got all bothered about many things concerning this book - and right there near the top of their pissy list it says "God don't laugh that much!" well, i think God does laugh that much. i think life more abundant means that we will all ride skateboards and fingerpaint and climb giant red oaks and wrestle 'gators and drink all the hoppy ale we want without getting drunk because Heaven will be all the fun we could not have on earth. that might be juvenile, but, dang, what else will we be doing? floating? playing harps? sitting on clouds looking dumbfounded? i think God has a tremendous Father's heart, and when God gets all the kids home one day, i think He's going to have a backyard party that don't stop. why else does seth haines want to roll on the floor and wrestle and tickle and laugh with his three sons? because God the Father wants to roll on the floor and wrestle and tickle and laugh with seth. it's simple. so william p. young hit that nail smack on the head.

- on that note, i also really liked it when Jesus told mack that He was not a christian. i also liked it when Jesus said that He did not come so that people could be like Jesus. instead, Jesus came to reveal the Father. CHA-CHING! jackpot! great stuff. when i read that, a little ball of agreement exploded in my gut. beautiful moment. totally great.

- i like how every chapter in THE SHACK had a quote at the front. when i write a book one day, the one about my pheonix tattoo and the day i shot out of the yellow sea like a cannonball from a submarine, i'm gonna put a bunch of boss quotes at the beginning of every chapter. there'll be stuff by ani difranco, mike ness of social distortion, isaac brock of modest mouse, my wife, my dad, my friend aubrey who lived next to me in china, thom yorke of radiohead, chad pollock, neil young, bruce springsteen, and a schlew of other folks that showed me God, not in a shack, but in a little communist owned apartment complex. i'm stoked to see it happen.

- i like how the Holy Spirit looked like lucy liu in my head the entire time i read THE SHACK. mainly because i think lucy lui is phenomenally gorgeous, but i'm totally not attracted to her in that way. ya know?

- i like how God kept rebuking this idea that something bad happened for a reason. instead, God was all like, yea, the bad thing happened - and I could have stopped it, but I didn't - and now that it's done I can make something awesomely beautiful out of it. this is good, in my opinion, because i've seen myself and other people waste a lot of years and faith searching for "the reason" or "the purpose" of why something happened. it's ten times easier, and quicker, to relinquish our need to know and to start praising God in the midst of all the shit. God promised to inhabit praises - God never promised to answer our questions. God promised to comfort those who mourn - God never promised to tell us why we mourned. that's a hard truth, but it's truth nonetheless. relinguishing our furious desire to know why is a pivotal step to trusting God as the Hopeful Redeemer of all things hopeless.

- i love that this book is blowing everybody's mind. that's great. i love that people are wrestling and trembling with their views of God in light of this very simple, good, hopeful story. that is so like God to stick His finger down in the middle of something totally benign and then swirl it up like a water park ride. eugene peterson might actually be right about THE SHACK: this book might shake some foundation in modern christianity that needs to be shaken, and then drop it to the floor in a devastating crash. i hope so. you just never know where God's gonna infuse His heart into His kids. i love the Lord for that.

- there were a couple times, only a couple, when billy young tried to give black mama Papa a hint of ebonics in her speech. that was just plum cute. it was only a couple lines, and it almost seemed like he was nervous to take it too far, but i laughed straight outloud when i saw it. i said, you go, whiteboy! and he did. and i'm glad.

alright, alright, that's all i got for now. i'm done with THE SHACK. now i'm reading olivia's recommendation, SILENCE. olivia knows what she's talking about. this SILENCE is wicked good. i'm only five chapters in, but i'm already giving it five samurai swords out of five. will keep you all posted.

ps. i writ this over on my other site today. you probably shouldn't read it.

A Reading Room Disclaimer

So I'm thinking we need to post a disclaimer somewhere on the main page of our blog. As we pick books and critique them we are bound to get visitors, like our friend Terry(which in my opinion are a good thing) who may not know us and think we are to harsh. We live in a critical society and although most of us understand and know each other, I would hate for anyone to be discouraged or offended by what we say about the books, authors, writing style or whatever. Maybe just a note on the side like where we welcome people to join us. I don't know. Just a thought.

Someone Get Me Out of This Shack!

About 3 weeks ago, my dear friend Nicole sent me a book by Alan Paton entitled Cry The Beloved Country (“Cry”).  Then, two weeks ago, my new friend Hamster sent me Papa—A Personal Memoir, by Greg Hemingway (“Papa”).  Cry is a novel about racial injustice, set in an Apartheid bound South Africa.  Papa is a non-fiction account of Ernest Hemmingway’s life through his son’s eyes.  I love South Africa and Hemingway.  I also like good writing.  I walk by both books daily and they respectfully ask me to open them to a new journey.  But alas, I am stuck in the Shack with Mack and a syrup bottle version of God that makes my stomach turn. 

In more guarded conversations—ones that do not find themselves published on the internet for all the world to see—you will hear many say that the dialogue in the Shack is somewhat less than stellar but not quite atrocious.  It is an idea book, the Shack apologist will say.   I waited for these ideas, hoping that they would overshadow the atrocities of trite dialogue.  I had been promised that they would.  And not just from you guys.  From preachers, and worship leaders, and bloggers, and perhaps even a relative or two.

I am disappointed.

“But while Mack could not stop the tears from filling his eyes, he was not ready to let go—not yet, not with this Woman.  …’Not Ready?’ she responded.  ‘That’s okay, we’ll do things on your terms and time.  Well come on in.  Can I take your coat.’”  Page 83.

“Mack stepped back again, feeling a bit overwhelmed.  ‘Are there more of you?’ he asked a little hoarsely.  The three looked at one another and laughed.  Mack couldn’t help but smile. ‘No, Mackenzie,’ chuckled the black woman. ‘We is all that you get, and believe me, we’re more than enough.’”  Page 85

“Pap was working on something with her back to him, flour flying as she swayed to the music of whatever she was listening to.  The song obviously came to an end, marked by a couple of last shoulder and hip shakes.  … ‘West Coast Juice.  Group called Diatribe and an album that isn’t even out yet called Heart Trips.  Actually,’ she winked at Mack, ‘these kids haven’t even been born yet.’”  Page 90.

“Mackenzie, I am neither male nor female….  If I choose to appear to you as a man or a woman, it’s because I love you.  For me to appear to you as a woman and suggest that you call me Papa is simply to mix metaphors, to help you keep from falling so easily back into your religious conditioning.”  Page 93.

When talking about Jesus asking why God forsook him:   “’Will you at least consider this: When all you can see is your pain, perhaps you lose sight of me?’”  Page 96.

About Jesus healing the blind: “’He did so as a dependent, limited human being trusting in my life and power to be at work within him and through him.  Jesus, as a human being, had no power within himself to heal anyone.’”  Page 100.

“’We have limited ourselves out of respect for you.  We are not bringing to mind, as it were, our knowledge of your children.  As we are listening to you, it is as if this is the first time we have known about [your friends], and we take great delight in seeing them through your eyes.’”  Page 106.

It is true, the Shack is an idea book.  And I don’t like the ideas.

The church has eaten this book up.  We’ve put it on the best seller list.  Why?  We want an identifiable God.  So we quickly adopt a version in which we dress her in an apron and jeans, allow her imperfect grammar, plug her into an iPod, limit her deity within human confines, and allow her to cast aspersions about Jesus’ eyesight on the Cross.  We like her to refrain from pushing.  She would never swallow us in a whale, or strike us off our asses on the road to Damascus.  She waits for us.  She does things on our “terms and time.” 

Who is she?  She is your all-understanding aunt.  You know, the one who used to listen to MTV when you were 6 and knows how to make that kick-A blackberry cobbler.  Because we can all identify with blackberry cobbler.  And who didn’t shake to the Dire Straights?

But at the heart of it all, the God I know through scripture is not understandable.  His qualities are infinitely juxtaposed: he is violent and tender; he is permissive and forceful; he is creative and destructive; he is understanding but unbending; he sets forth his plan and then relents.  Further, he sent us a representation of himself that was not understood, even by those who followed him the most closely.  And when the Spirit came and infiltrated every believer, they still didn’t quite get God—at least, not all the way.

I know that the above quotes contain many debatable theological issues, but that is not the point of this post.  Perhaps we can discuss these more fully in the comments.  Instead, I ask why we are so quick to adopt a rewritten God?  Why do we desire to neuter the immutable complexities of God, which I admit can seem vexing? I think these complexities are beautiful.  They keep me coming back for more.

Look, I don’t need God to be white, or male, or Baptist, I just need him to be God.  Not my aunt Sharon (who I must say makes incredible toffee).  And I fear that all I’m getting here is a culturally acceptable version of him.  A palatable version of the trinity.   A made-for-T.V. theology in which Oprah is sure to be the central character. We’ll watch it and laugh at that cute blue bird nuzzling in the crook of her neck.

Rubbish.

 

An Interview with Mr. Young

I found THIS interview hosted by OPB radio. It's long, but I thought it was pretty interesting. Some points that have already been discussed on this blog were brought up. Sometimes I agreed with what I heard, sometimes I didn't. (My kind of interview.) Listen to it while you sweep your floors or something and let me know what you think.

An Equally Awesome and Awkward Experience

I’m in a Real Live Face To Face book club here in Portland with my dear friend Jessica. We refer to it as the Super Serious Not Stupid book club because we’ve both had bad experiences with book groups before and we both like alliteration. During one of our chats a few months ago, we also started talking about The Shack; I was currently reading it, and Jess had read it last fall. She had a great experience to share, so when I found out it was this blog’s first book, I bugged her to write about it. She really is quite lovely with her words.

Also – no spoilers, so read on.
--------
I had just joined a book club through my church, and was fairly disappointed when I saw the cover of the first book we were supposed to read: The Shack. In all honesty, had this not been the first book that we read as a group, I would have most likely returned that puppy to Powell's, forgotten about the book club, and found something else to do with my time. But out of that old Southern Baptist guilt, I decided to give it a try. After searching EVERYWHERE for this thing (amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, Powell's, etc.) I finally found it at the Multnomah School of the Bible bookstore. Sigh. So, I took it with me on my bus commute to work, hiding the cover all the way, ashamed that I was ashamed.

The first few chapters were nothing to write home about. In fact, I felt a sense of pity for the author - he evidently hadn't written much, and the dialogue was terrible. And predictable. And trite. But our looming date for the first book club meeting was coming up, so I ended up blazing through it in a frenzied two-day-span before our group met for the first time.

When I arrived at our first meeting, there was a man in a red polo shirt, sitting uncomfortably in the corner. Because I'm generally uncomfortable in social situations anyway, I could empathize. I didn't feel too comfortable myself. After a dinner full of agonizing small talk and some weird reader version of one-upmanship ("Oh, you absolutely HAVE to read so and so", "You haven't read so and so? His writing will change your LIFE", etc. etc.), we all sat around in a circle, and found out that Polo Shirt Man was the author. He lives in Portland, and his son goes to our church - thus, the connection. Sigh. I felt like I could no longer blast the literary deficiencies in the book and would have to be quite surfacey and positive. Heck, the guy at least gave writing a shot, which is more than I can say for myself.

He was quiet, but had a way of speaking such that you wanted to listen. He apparently had written this book as a gift for his children. His own childhood had been quite painful - he was raised by missionary parents in Papua New Guinea, and they were both so consumed with their respective ministries that he was neglected and basically raised by the tribal people to which his parents were ministering. Along with this came initiations into tribal rites which were terribly painful for him, emotionally (and he didn't go into what these entailed, and to be honest, I don't want to think about that), and the scars stayed with him for quite a while - and ended up playing a role in how he raised his own children. I received the impression that The Shack was a way to show his children how the love of the trinity far surpasses anything a father on earth can do. He gave them this book for Christmas, I believe, and that was that.

But then - after some strange connection (he knew someone who knew someone who knew someone), the piece ended up in the hands of a publisher and things took off from there. I'm pretty hazy on what happened next - but the important thing to me was that he never intended for the book to be made public or to be published. He wrote it for his kids.

This really changed the way I saw the book. Though I hear that it's now somewhat gone the Prayer of Jabez route (Prayer of Jabez tea set, anyone?), that was never the intent. It was just something that a dad put together for his family. A lot of people have experienced pain and need to know the different ways that God loves them. And to be honest, we all need to be a little more open in regards to our view of the trinity as well, so it's a win-win situation.

When I left that night, I felt the way you do when you've been with someone who has laid all of his or her emotions and inadequacies out there. You sort of feel honored to have been trusted with access to their pain. And there's something attractive about that, especially when the individual didn't necessarily set out to turn their emotional/spiritual hurts into a money-making gig. It made me reread the book with a measure of grace. Though I'm not sure how this is the case, it makes me happy that it debuted at number one on the New York Times trade paperback fiction best-seller list. I guess it makes me happy for the quiet awkward man in the corner.

where were you?

There aren't very many recorded conversations between man and God, but there is one that stands out to me, and it blows me away, and it has given me many notions about God, and the outcome is usually not that I would consider His grandeur my own.

Read this. 

New book idea.

Three Cups of Tea; One man's journey to promote peace...one school at a time...

By Greg Mortenson

Find Your Answers Here

Chapter 5 marks the onset of the heart of the book, and right away the deep thoughts/questions begin. And there sure are a lot of them. I mean A LOT. Too many, I think. In fact, as I was reading I felt overwhelmed and bombarded by all of it. I felt as if the author thought to himself, "Hmm, how can I address as many of the deep questions people have about God while also throwing off as many stereotypes as possible? I know - I will write a book where a man meets God face to face."

Here are some of the questions/issues discussed so far:

• Problem of evil
• Free will
• The Trinity
• Jesus - fully man/fully God
• Creation and ecology
• Submission
• The meaning of "good" and "evil"

And here are some of the stereotypes the book attempts to rebuke:

• God is male
• God is white
• We should only listen to "Christian" music
• Jesus was handsome
• God is a punisher
• You have to bow your head and close your eyes to pray

So far I've read to somewhere in chapter 10, and the pace shows no sign of slowing down. Some of the items above I thought were very insightful, and have made me think. But I can't think for long because in the next paragraph something new is brought up.

How We Talk About God's Experience

GIGANTIC SPOILER ALERT!

So, a couple of my close friends struggle with wanting to know God as we know each other - they seem to want to know His "inner life," so to speak. They don't really have a sense of God as a Person-with-a-capital-P; he's like a number or a logical proposition to them.

Christian writers often bemoan the limits of language as they attempt to talk about God. When C.S. Lewis tries to talk about how the Trinity shows us that God is love because God is relationship, it sounds fuzzy and abstract - he uses an indistinct image of dancing a lot (as do a lot of other writers of the same time period). Even Scripture doesn't spell out what the "inner life" of Trinitarian love is like. We learn something from the father-son language - but what don't hear much about what that feels like for the father (other than that he is "pleased"), and the only words we hear from the son on this point are sort of terrifying ("why have you forsaken me"). We also learn something from Jesus's insistence that his every action flows from his connection to the father - but this still doesn't go very far to show us what God's relationship looks like and feels like to God. It doesn't picture the Godness of God to us - that self-sufficient, timeless love flowing from each member of the Trinity to the other (or from God to the Son, and generating the Holy Spirit in the process, depending on what corner of the church you hail from - these distinctions are beyond me). Maybe Phillipians 2:6-11 is the closest Scripture comes to telling us about the Trinity's Personal experience of itself.

The Shack is kind of fascinating because it tries to picture the love-relationship of the Trinity concretely - without the fuzzy abstractions of theologians. But I really bristle at the picture of Trinitarian love as Jesus, Sarayu, and Papa dealing with broken plates and spilled food in a kitchen (see pp. 104-105). It doesn't work for me because it's too ... ordinary, small, human. Mack sees the Trinity only through the lens of sin: "He knew that it didn't matter whose fault it was ... How different this was from the way he treated the ones he loved." I guess I bristle because the image doesn't help me much: of course God / Jesus / Holy Spirit wouldn't argue over a broken plate. Maybe my objection is silly.

Anyway, to come to the whole point of this post: If you think it's possible to talk about the love within the Trinity apart from God's relationship to creation, then what images / metaphors / situations would you use to try to describe God's "inner love life," or the love that the members of the Trinity share?

One of Many Possible Arguments for Women's Ordination?

SPOILER ALERT!

"Mackenzie, I am neither male nor female, even though both genders are derived from my nature. If I choose to appear to you either as a man or a woman, it's because I love you. For me to appear to you as a woman and suggest that you call me Papa is simply to mix metaphors, to help you from falling so easily back into your religious conditioning."

[...] She stopped talking, but only long enough to put away some seasonings into a spice rack on a ledge by the window and then turned to face him again. She looked at Mack intently. "Hasn't it always been a problem for you to embrace me as your father? And after what you've been through, you couldn't very well handle a father right now, could you?" (93)

After all, pastors do represent God in a special way to their flock - and they are perhaps the most prominent icons of God for those far away from the church. I think my familiarity w/ the "in persona Christi" doctrine of the Catholic church made me think about the quoted passage in relationship to women's ordination. There are plenty of people who find the idea of turning to a man for help / guidance a terrifying thing. (Although I've heard the counter-argument, "All the more reason for these hurt people to have interactions with male pastors that could be positive and healing.")

Chaper 4

I caught myself rubbing my forehead almost painfully as I barely skimmed over the pages in Chapter 4. I think that reading this is worse than seeing this acted out on some TV show or cheesy Lifetime Movie. You really get to experience the fear and panic. I've read this before and it still makes me feel almost desperate, hoping the words would change and Missy would be found. This reminds me of the first time I cried when I read a book; when Jack died in Little House on the Prairie. I don't know about you, but this being one of my worst nightmares was almost too difficult to read. I want to go look at Summit sleeping and just be thankful that he is here. Regardless of how poor William P. Young's writing may or may not be, (that, being most of the discussion so far and less the content itself it seems,) the emotions and feelings are all there. With Ben working late and not here, like Ashley said in her post- I feel so helpless to keep him safe from the evils of the world!

They Knew Him in the Breaking of the Bread

The Shack is so Joan of Arcadia. (I really like that show, by the way. The book doesn't hold a candle to it.)

This is a quick non-spoilerous response to something that irks me: the persistent "organized Christianity is really misguided, so we just have to peel off the untruths of church history to get to God" tap-dance.

Try as he might, Mack could not escape the desperate possibility that the note just might be from God after all, even if the thought of God passing notes did not fit well with his theological training. In seminary he had been taught that God had completely stopped any overt communication with moderns, preferring to have them only listen to and follow sacred Scripture, properly interpreted, of course. God's voice had been reduced to paper, and even that paper had to be moderated and deciphered by the proper authorities and intellects. It seemed that direct communication with God was something exclusively for the ancients and uncivilized, while educated Westerners' access to God was mediated and controlled by the intelligentsia. Nobody wanted God in a box, just in a book. (65-66)

None of his old seminary training was helping in the least. (91)

Young gives an overstated and simplistic answer to the organized-religious-tradition-versus-personal-encounter-with-God question. It bothers me for a number of reasons:

• The "ancients" didn't have a direct pipeline to God any more than we do. God saw fit to meet humanity in community. In the Hebrew Bible God speaks to Israel through the law and the prophets, and to the rest of the nations through Israel. God cares about how sin structures society - how nobody cares for the orphans and the widows. And God singles out people primarily to call out the society on its sin - not just to deal with personal demons. It's no different with Jesus: he storms the Temple; he rebukes the practices of a "wicked generation"; he talks about the coming kingdom of heaven. And this calling is life-shattering: Isaiah w/ coals in his mouth, Ezekiel lying on his side, Hosea's children with their shameful names; Christ on the Cross; Paul in prison w/ a thorn in his side.
  
• Reading theology / biblical scholars and doing the seminary thing and steeping ourselves in the tradition of the church can probably take the blinders off of us and help us understand God better than we otherwise would have. Without the challenging perspectives of Christians from the past (who don't share our modern preoccupations) as well as Christians from other corners of the church (who have slightly different ideas about things), I'm liable to spin dangerously on the merry-go-round of my own mind. Young's presentation of Mack's seminary-learning as insipid sounds too eerily like a fellow-grad-student's knee-jerk response to the adoration of icons after returning from a long research trip to Moscow: "There's just so much in Eastern Orthodoxy that's keeping people from really knowing God."
• It's dangerous to set a non-mediated (tradition-less, church-less) individual encounter with God as the norm of vital faith. (So far, it seems like we're supposed to see Mack as normal. His pain, even though horrible, is the kind of pain anyone could suffer - part of the reason it's so traumatic for the parents here to read it. It's not prophet-pain: we're meant to identify with it in a way that we would never identify with Ezekial's or Hosea's pain. So the story normalizes unmediated faith.) Besides overlooking bullet-point one (God talks to people as a group), it sets most people up for a horrible crisis of faith. What happens when God feels absent? When prayer feels dry and lonely?
  

Has anyone read Silence? It's the artsy-Japanese-Catholic version of this question. One of my favorite novels.

Finally....!

It came...

Then or Than?

This really has nothing to do with the quality or content of the writing in The Shack. It is a grammar question for you literary teachers and gurus. In the first paragraph of page 32, fourth line down...should the word be "then" or "than"? ("With his own voice a little huskier then usual...") -- Ashley SHAVER

how a child can

We have these Steve Green CDs of Bible memory verses for children, and Jude, my two year old, hears a groovy version of "Encourage one another and build each other up," and he rubs his paintbrush deep into the paint and runs the wet brush side to side to the music. He is a conductor on paper, painting a piece of music because he is two, and he can unashamedly take in the music and transfer it into another genre.

Isaac, my three year old, listens with such intensity that he has to stop painting. Jude sneaks a foot over to Isaac's chair (which bothers Isaac worse than anything), and Isaac stares into his brother and grits out "God is love, Jude. The song says God is Love!"

He believes it. As much as he knows how, he believes that God will take away all pain one day. He believes it: Jesus is not pretend. 

There is no bigger or better way to believe than how a child can, and I think Young does a fine job with Missy's little character, especially in how she studies the story of the beautiful Indian maid and in how she later asks questions. She points out that God seems mean to make the princess jump off the cliff and to make Jesus die on the cross, and Mack soothes her in his big daddy arms, saying that God would never ask her to jump off a cliff.

This is where the rub comes in. Little Missy does get to be Jesus for her daddy who had been stuck for so long with a white-haired grandpaw-God, an alcoholic bruiser of a dad, and a get-out-of-jail-for-free card from seminary. Missy gets to be the princess jumping from the cliff to save her daddy's relationship with Papa. And she's right. It doesn't seem fair, does it? 

I guess that's why he had to use something so brutal for his readers to understand Mack's Great Sadness, and now, I'm expecting for Papa to tell us about it. If Young doesn't nail The Question of Evil square in the head, then I'll be shnookered. 

Really? Isn't it the point, though, that we be made like our Saviour God? Outside of the horrendous avenue from which it happens, it is beautiful that Missy gets to be her Daddy's princess, taking him to the lowest of lows so that Papa could heal him from wounds that were generations old. 

Chapter 2 Quote

"Nothing makes us so lonely as our secrets." --Paul Tournier

Isn't this so true? Secret sin sucks snakes.

There's some alliteration for your Monday morning.

B-/C+ Writing?

When I first started reading The Shack, I had a hard time moving through the B-/C+ writing. (I have to temper this by stating that I am not a writer and, therefore, don't try to be one. I certainly could write no better than William Young.) The writing certainly isn't as clever or brilliant as the only two fiction books that I've finished in the past couple of years: Angela's Ashes by Frank McCourt (that is some hilariously haunting Irish goodness right there) and Peace Like A River by Lief Enger (his writing is as intriguing as his name).

I read the comments below to "Is Mack Real?" after I read the first two chapters. This comment of Nicole's changed the way that I began to read the book:

"It was easier for me to read and enjoy The Shack knowing that Mr. Young isn't (wasn't?) a professional writer. He wrote it as a gift to his family, who encouraged him to get it published. So the poor writing, I guess I can't hold that against him, and it's not fair to compare him to McCarthy because they're in different leagues..."

I began to read it with a little more forgiveness, but it still makes me wonder if the only reason that it is on the bestseller list is because Evangelical Christianity has embraced it and is curious about it. (In my opinion, most Christian fiction is not "readable". Is that a word?) I haven't read past Chapter 4, though, and it sounds like everyone is saying to focus on the content, rather than the writing.

Also, I would recommend that you not read Chapter 4 right before going to bed. At least, not when your husband is in Chicago and you are the sole protector of your three sleeping babies. It leads to some OCD impulses and some nutty nightmares.

I have a really hard time with cruelty to children. I just can't stomach it or even let my brain go there. For that reason, I'm grateful to Young for being a little ambiguous about the murder. I couldn't read past the bully rape scene in The Kite Runner. I never picked it back up, despite it's brilliant writing, and that scene still haunts my memory.

This is Ashley SHAVER, by the way. I noticed there is another Ashley on the blog.

All-Abouts and Do-Si-Dos

If we could just share a box of these together, this place would be perfect.

Tomorrow we get to discuss the first 66 pages of The Shack unless we've all read more than that. Comment to this post when you've actually finished the book or if you're ready to discuss more, but wait for the word before you do initiate conversation on more than the first 66 pages.

Post what stands out to you the most about the first four chapters. You don't have to be fancy about it - or you can whip up a double-spaced, aptly titled analogy of Young's use of definite articles. Let's just get some conversation going from one post or fifty. 

If I had them, I would trade all the girl-scout cookies in the world for you guys. You know, cookies after your Sunday coma - there's nothing better - except for maybe a bloggy book club.